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Gönderen Konu: (BoLS) 40K'da Flyerların Geleceği  (Okunma sayısı 6633 defa)

Ruhi

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(BoLS) 40K'da Flyerların Geleceği
« : Ekim 16, 2012, 10:48:05 ÖÖ »
Necrons.. :)



Alıntı
Chaos Space Marines is out and it give us some idea of where 40K is going - especially with flyers.

Phil Kelly gave us not only Codex Space Marines - but the first codex built purely for 6th Edition.  We can safely assume that Necrons were built with a foot firmly in both editions. Grey Knights, and Dark Eldar probably looked forward to 6th, bit were still rooted in 5th.  All the previous books seem to be firmly 5th Edition.

If we consider Chaos Marines to be the first of the "default intended" power level books, we have to look at what power levels we can expect to see moving forward.  To me, the details of the individual units are less important than some larger issue items such as the playing field between flyers, vehicles, and infantry forces.

If you were expecting a lot of options for air defense, you are going to be disappointed.  Basically your options for air defense are pricy flakk missiles, only available to Havocs, themselves smallish units with a max size of ten compared to the numerous 20 model units in the codex.  The lack of Interceptor on those missiles still gives flyers the jump on that unit and with several flyers being experts at nailing infantry, its a good bet those flakk Havocs wont last too long.  Aside from that you get the perfectly decent Heldrake. It's probably a safer bet to deal with flyers, even though its likely a more formidable threat with the anti-surface baleflamer option.  Outside of that you're looking at standard codex fortification skyfire/interceptor options.

In general the point is that as an entire codex, CSM doesn't have heavy air defense options.  It also limits your own flyers to three.  This three flyer limit places the CSMs firmly in the middle of the pack alongside:

-Grey Knights

-Blood Angels
-Dark Eldar
-Orks

All of these races can use flyers, and there is a sort of limited balanced type of air force to expect when you face them.  Yes, they may be there, but with their reserve limits and small numbers, even limited defensive anti-air equipment such as we see in codex Chaos Space Marines can deal with it - and give us a nice fun game.

The Imperial Guard are one step up, with up to 9 Valkyries being fieldable.  Still they are BS:3 and their higher price makes them pale compared to...

The undisputed aerial masters - The Necrons.  Its not that the Night Scythe is a transport, so is the Valkyrie, its that as a dedicated transport and its dirt cheap cost and BS:4 it allows those 12 flyer lists that no army can easily deal with.

Is it an auto-win - no most certainly not.  But just like the all reserve - hide - and objective grab armies were in 5th its almost like playing a different game entirely.  When you come to play a 40K game the designers give the players a certain level of basic expectations.  We are going to get to move around, shoot some, kill some stuff, lose some stuff, and go for objectives.  When any one army "breaks the barriers" of that contract you can end up with games of hide and seek where one side is just trying to survive, or win through guile.  That's a problem.  I don't want to play a game where my goal is to merely endure and try to flood the field with enough bodies to force "mission kills" on the flyers by making them spend half the game off the board in reserve.

I really like what I see in codex CSM, and its a quality,blanced typical Phil Kelly bit of workmanship.  It bodes well for the future of 6th Edition.  The problem is last year's unfinished business with Necrons and their air force (and to a much lesser extent IG).  With the Necrons being the 2nd newest kid on the block, you can bet they aren't going anywhere anytime soon - so that leaves us with 3 choices.

1) Everyone learns to despise and endure Cron Air with a variety of strategems of guile.
2) Games Workshop somehow shifts the balance via errata or FAQs for the Night Scythe
3) Fantasy style comp starts to rear its head in Warhammer 40k.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.

- Mark Twain

blackwinter

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« Yanıtla #1 : Ekim 16, 2012, 10:56:13 ÖÖ »
+1 coreklere....

Stormraven gunship mi alsam?
Sigismund replied.'"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?
The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris" Torgadon put in "because there clinically insane."
-1st captain of the imperial fists and Captain of the 2nd Company of the luna wolves.
"Horus Rising"

Ruhi

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Ynt: (BoLS) 40K'da Flyerların Geleceği
« Yanıtla #2 : Ekim 16, 2012, 11:04:20 ÖÖ »
Yav, hani havaya karşı en iyi savunma ya tamamen umursamama veya kendi flyerların ile çıkma görünüyor.

NOT: Yav, bu rezervler +1 zorluğa gelsin olayları ne kadar önemli bu hava savunma işine..

NOT 2: Hava hakimiyeti rakipte olunca, eğer pek araç falan da kullanmıyorsanız, hani 3-4 round da ne kadar piyade, vs. öldürebilecek merakla beklemeyekteyim.

NOT 3: Stormraven süper model.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.

- Mark Twain

Sulcalen

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« Yanıtla #3 : Ekim 17, 2012, 10:02:52 ÖÖ »
Herif 12 flyer demiş necronlara 3 heavy + 6 troop, ee kalanı nasıl alınıyor be hacım  ??? ???

Ruhi

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« Yanıtla #4 : Ekim 17, 2012, 10:45:18 ÖÖ »
+3 Elit var herhalde abi. Army Builder'da Lychguard ve Deathmark'a da verilebiliyor bu uçan paşalardan.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.

- Mark Twain

iyt

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« Yanıtla #5 : Ekim 17, 2012, 12:05:42 ÖS »
3erden 9 tanesi squadron olarak alıp 3 tane de dedicated transport alıyorlardir  bence

Sulcalen

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« Yanıtla #6 : Ekim 17, 2012, 01:07:04 ÖS »
eyw o elemanlara da dedicated alınabileceğini unutmuşum

althar amadeous

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« Yanıtla #7 : Ekim 17, 2012, 01:26:48 ÖS »
ya bu iş iyice hava savaşına gidiyor 40 k yeni başlıcam Flyer olayı beni zorluyor konsep olarak kalabalık iyidir felsefesini benimsiyom diyodum ama artık oynucam oyunlarda Flyer yok olarak mı konuşsam yada Hover modu zorumlu olsa hani ozaman assault edip flyerın motorunu Power clawla söktüm diye bilirim belki. Yada kalabalığı hazırladıktan sonra bizde ork ucan zımbırtıları edincez
Beastmen - 5000 pts
Space Orcs - 3100 pts
Gothic Chaos - 1000pts
BB-Orc team - Dwarf team
Stompa - Looted Shadow Sword

Ruhi

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« Yanıtla #8 : Ekim 17, 2012, 01:32:59 ÖS »
Eğer indirilemez ise, şu herkesin alabileceği barikatlar arkası AA bile muhteşem hava savunması veriyor aslında.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.

- Mark Twain

blackwinter

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« Yanıtla #9 : Ekim 17, 2012, 01:54:59 ÖS »
Evet abi alican aegis defence line icinde quad gunla nereyi gorurse sikicak. İcinede atican objektivi 3+ covrrsavede 1 squad marine koruyacak onu. Alabilen gelip alsin onun icinden.
Sigismund replied.'"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?
The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris" Torgadon put in "because there clinically insane."
-1st captain of the imperial fists and Captain of the 2nd Company of the luna wolves.
"Horus Rising"

Sulcalen

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« Yanıtla #10 : Ekim 17, 2012, 03:33:41 ÖS »
Alıntı
Evet abi alican

Alican kim len sizin çeptırmestır falan mı ?  ;D ;D

Yasar

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« Yanıtla #11 : Ekim 19, 2012, 12:58:46 ÖS »
Alıntı
Evet abi alican

Alican kim len sizin çeptırmestır falan mı ?  ;D ;D

like butonu olsun istedim bi an yemin ediyorum  ;D

blackwinter

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« Yanıtla #12 : Ekim 19, 2012, 01:37:29 ÖS »
Alıntı
Evet abi alican

Alican kim len sizin çeptırmestır falan mı ?  ;D ;D

like butonu olsun istedim bi an yemin ediyorum  ;D

Ulan ben bunu nasil kacirmisim :))))

Bizim master Draigo. İstersen bi ara tanistirayim ;)
Sigismund replied.'"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?
The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris" Torgadon put in "because there clinically insane."
-1st captain of the imperial fists and Captain of the 2nd Company of the luna wolves.
"Horus Rising"

althar amadeous

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« Yanıtla #13 : Ekim 19, 2012, 05:51:59 ÖS »
Lütfen Power weaponlarınızla Arkadaşlarınızı Korkutmayınız !!!
Beastmen - 5000 pts
Space Orcs - 3100 pts
Gothic Chaos - 1000pts
BB-Orc team - Dwarf team
Stompa - Looted Shadow Sword

blackwinter

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Ynt: (BoLS) 40K'da Flyerların Geleceği
« Yanıtla #14 : Ekim 19, 2012, 06:12:04 ÖS »
Lütfen Power weaponlarınızla Arkadaşlarınızı Korkutmayınız !!!

power weapon? o ne?
Sigismund replied.'"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?
The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris" Torgadon put in "because there clinically insane."
-1st captain of the imperial fists and Captain of the 2nd Company of the luna wolves.
"Horus Rising"